And, "You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the works of your hands. They will perish, but you continue. They all will grow old like a garment does. As a mantle you will roll them up. And they will be changed. But you are the same. Your years will not fail." -- Hebrews 1:10-12

Our trinitarian neighbors and some others claim that in Hebrews 1:10-12, a scripture originally applied to Yahweh (Jehovah) is applied to Jesus. They tell us that it is Yahweh that is being spoken to by the Father in Hebrews 1:10-12, when the writer of Hebrews referenced Psalm 102:25-27. If in Psalm 102:25-27 it is indeed Yahweh who is being addressed, then who is it that is speaking to Yahweh? It would have to be the Psalmist himself. However, the writer of Hebrews indicates that it is the God of Israel who is speaking to the one being spoking to in Psalm 102:25-27. Thus to say that is is Yahweh being spoken to in Psalm 102:25-27 would, in effect, make the Psalmist be playing the role of Yahweh as applied in this manner to Hebrews 1:10-12. In actuality, there is no reason to believe that the Psalmist was playing the role of the Father [who is Yahweh] speaking to the Son [supposedly, according to trinitarians, who is also Yahweh].

Paul in Hebrews plainly tells us that this is God [Yahweh], the Father of Jesus, speaking to Jesus, his Son. We should, therefore, view Psalm 102:25-27 from this perspective, else we would come to the conclusion that Paul was wrong in his reference.

Paul was not wrong when he said the Father (Yahweh) spoke to his Son when referencing Psalm 102:25-27. Yahweh [the Father] is not being spoken to at all in these verses, but just as the writer of Hebrews truthfully tells us, the Father [Yahweh] speaks to his Son when he stated these matters.

If we read the Psalm closely, we can see that the Psalmist is prophetically playing the role of Messiah in verse 24: "I said, O my God, do not take me away in the midst of my days." As David often did not speak of himself when using the first person, but prophetically of the Messiah (Psalm 16:8-10=Acts 2:25-30; Psalm 22:1=Matthew 27:46; Psalm22:22=Hebrews 2:11,12; Psalm 35:19=John 15:25; Psalm 40:6-8=Hebrews 10:5-10; Psalm 41:9=John 13:18, etc.), so the writer of Hebrews tells us that the Psalmist who wrote Psalm 102 was prophetic of the Messiah to whom Yahweh, the Father, spoke. From this we can also reasonably conclude that the author of Psalm 102 is also David. Thus Jesus fulfilled this role in his statement: "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me; nevertheless, not what I want, but what you want." -- Matthew 26:39; See also John 12:27.

It should be borne in mind that punctuation is a modern invention, and thus the punctuation we see in our translations is not inspired. The Scriptures were previously without any punctuation. The punctuation as given in many translations is manifestly wrong in several places. Let us look at Psalm 102-24-27, applying punctuation in accordance to what Paul stated:

For he has looked down from the height of his sanctuary. From heaven, Yahweh saw the earth; To hear the groans of the prisoner; To free those who are condemned to death; That men may declare the name of Yahweh in Zion, And his praise in Jerusalem; When the peoples are gathered together, The kingdoms, to serve Yahweh. [Now Jesus is represented as speaking at the time of his death.] He weakened my strength along the course. He shortened my days. I said, "My God, don't take me away in the midst of my days. Your years are throughout all generations."

[Hear Yahweh's answer of assurance to that heart prayer:] "Of old, you laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you will endure. Yes, all of them will wear out like a garment. You will change them like a cloak, and they will be changed. But you are the same. Your years will have no end. The children of your servants will continue. Their seed will be established before you."

Thus we have no reason to believe Paul is incorrect in his application of the scripture, and likewise this scripture does not provide any proof of the claim that Jesus is Yahweh.

Is Jesus Being Designated as the Creator?

In this scripture, Paul quotes from Psalm 102:25-27, and tells us that Jehovah is speaking here to his son. Does this scripture designate Jesus as "the" Creator of the heavens and the earth? It does say that the "heavens" are the work of his hands, and that he was the one who laid the foundation of the earth. The question is what is meant by "heavens" here? What is meant by earth? Is it speaking of the entire universe?

Many fail to take into consideration the scriptures as a whole, and thus come up with the wrong conclusions concerning what is being said in this verse. We should rightly divide the Word of Truth, so as to make the proper applications as related to context as well as the rest of the scriptures. (2 Timothy 2:15) God has revealed his truth by means of his holy spirit through the prophets in the Old Testament and through Jesus and his apostles in the New Testament. (Mark 12:36; Luke 4:11; 10:21; 24:27,44; Acts 1:16; 2:33; 10:38; 28:25; Hebrews 1:1,3; 3:7; 1 Peter 3:10-12; 2 Peter 1:21) God, by means of his holy spirit, especially led the apostles into all the truths concerning Christ and what he said. (John 14:26; 16:4-13; Acts 1:2; Galatians 1:12; Ephesians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; 2 Timothy 2:2) The truths revealed to the apostles and made available to us are recorded in the Bible (the commonly-accepted 66 books) itself. (Ephesians 3:3-12; Colossians 1:25,26; 1 John 4:6) Of course, without the holy spirit, these things that are recorded will still be a mystery to us. (Mark 4:11; 1 Corinthians 2:7-10) What we need to do, if we are to be harmony with what God's spirit has revealed, is look closely and compare spiritual revealment with spiritual revealment as given in the scriptures. -- 1 Corinthians 2:10,13.

In context, the heavens and earth being spoken of is said to pass away. Therefore, we can conclude that this is not speaking of the heavens where God's throne is, or where God and angels dwell, and we can further conclude that it is not speaking of the physical heavens or the physical earth, which will never be removed. -- Psalm 72:17; 78:69; 89:36; 104:5.

Hebrews 1:10: "And, "You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the works of your hands." I believe that it is possible that this not referring to the original creation of the heavens and earth as described in Genesis 1:1, but of the present heavens and earth that was laid in days of of Noah and his family after the flood. Peter speaks of this 2 Peter 3. 2 Peter 3:5,6 speaks heavens that were (past tense) and an earth, which had created by the word [Logos] of God. This original creation was indeed created by means of the Logos, which had become corrupted because of Adam's sin, but that world (kosmos) of mankind passed perished in the flood of Noah's day. (2 Peter 3:6) The six days of Genesis 1:1 - 2:1, in which God created the heavens and the earth (Exodus 20:11; 31:17), through the Logos (John 1:3,10), do not refer to the making of the actual planet earth, nor of the making of the heavens that is God's throne. (Psalm 1:11; Isaiah 66:1; Matthew 5:34; 23:22; Acts 7:49) Following this post, God willing, I will present the scriptural proofs that John 1:1 and Genesis 1:1 are not speaking of the creation of the whole universe, or the physical planets, stars, earth, etc. Certainly, when Genesis 1:1 speaks of heavens, it not speaking of the heaven where God resides with his angels (2 Chronicles 28:6; Job 1:6; Matthew 18:10; 1 Timothy 6:16), and of which the scriptures speak of as His throne. -- Psalm 11:14; 102:19; 103:19; Isaiah 66:1.

That heavens and earth had already perished at the time of the writing of both Psalm 102:25-27 and also of Hebrews 1:10. This agrees with Genesis 6:13, where God tells Noah that he was about destroy that earth -- not the planet itself -- but the conditions that had become prevalent upon the planet. That heavens and earth -- that world (kosmos) -- perished, but it was not the physical heavens and earth that perished, for these still exist. Out of the ruins of that kosmos, however, another heavens and earth came into being, which Peter refers to as "the present heavens and the earth, by the same word are treasured." (2 Peter 3:7, Young's Literal Translation) The same Logos of God was used in establishing and laying the foundation of the present heavens and earth as had been used in the original heavens and earth that had been destroyed in flood of Noah's day. (2 Peter 3:5,6) Thus, by comparing all of these spiritual revealments, the conclusion is that it is the present heavens and earth (2 Peter 3:7) that is being spoken of Hebrews 1:10, which heavens and earth were established after the flood of Noah's day. It is this heavens and earth that Peter says "the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up." (2 Peter 3:10) This agrees perfectly with Hebrews 1:10.

Nevertheless, the word *kosmos* (world) can also be applied to the present world of mankind as going all the way back to Adam, disregarding the destruction of the *kosmos* that is spoken of as having perished in 2 Peter 3:6. Romans 1:20 appears to be speaking of the original creation of the world, for instance. Romans 5:12 speaks of sin entering into the world (kosmos), thus applying the word as disregarding the world that perished in the flood of Noah's day. Thus it is possible that Hebrews 1:10 could be referring to the same period of time spoken of in Genesis 1:1 - 2:1. Regardless, the heavens and earth being spoken of in Genesis 1:1 are said to be created by God, but we learn in the New Testament that God created "through" the Logos, or as it reads in the World English at Ephesians 3:9: "God ... created all things through Jesus Christ." Thus, "in [Greek, *en*, Strong's #1722, used here as signifying an instrument being used, thus, "by means of*"] him were the all things created," " all things through [Greek, dia, Strong's #1223**] him, and for him, have been created him, and to him." -- Colossians 1:16, Young's Literal Translation.==========
*The Greek word *EN* does not always mean "instrumentality", but the only other meaning would be a location, either in time or space. The Greek word *EN* Colossians 1:16 has to be seen as meaning instrumentality, or else the only other conclusion as that all things were literally created inside of the actual being of Jesus.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1722
**The Greek word *dia* always denotes "the channel an act". Usually it represents an agent being used by another, but it can also mean the channel from which an act originates. The context, as well as the rest of the scriptures, show that in Colossians 1:16 the word is used to express that Jesus is used as an agent by the God and Father of Jesus in creation. (Colossians 1:3,10,11,12,13,15) One would have assume and add to the scripture that Jesus is God from this scripture.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1223

The "heavens" that ruled the earth in the beginning was also established by means of the Logos. However, it was corrupted by a usurper. Using the King of Tyre as a symbol of the angel that rebelled, this arrangement is spoken of in Ezekiel 28:13-15. Originally, there was one appointed/anointed in the heavens over Eden as a covering cherub, and that one rebelled against God's arrangements. Satan set himself up as the ruler and "god of this world". (2 Corinthians 4:4) Thus, we are told that our fight is against "against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." -- Ephesians 6:12.

The foundations of human society were also laid there (Mark 10:6), in family and fraternal relationships, on the basis of love and justice, on which the human race could have built up a social structure as fine and as sweet as that of heaven; and, in perfect joy with each other, mankind could have delighted without fear in the unfolding wonders with which the Creator had filled the earth, and possibly even other planets. But Solomon said: "This only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions." -- Ecclesiastes 7:29.

They will perish, but you continue. They all will grow old like a garment does. -- Hebrews 1:11

This present evil world or arrangement -- both its heavens [the rulership by Satan and his demons as well as their human agencies] and its earth [the arrangement of disobedient human society in general] are to perish. Again, this is not speaking of the planet, nor of the physical heavens above, for these will never be removed.

As a mantle you will roll them up. And they will be changed. But you are the same. Your years will not fail. -- Hebrews 1:12.

As a an old piece of clothing, they will be rolled up, and changed. As they were they will no longer be actively worn as a mantle. In effect, they will no longer be active. However, as God says: "Behold, I make all things new." (Revelation 21:5) The old system of Satan, as such is to be destroyed, but out of its "mantle", which is folded and changed, comes forth "the new heavens [with its New Jerusalem from which to rule] and the new earth," in which righteousness will dwell. - - Revelation 21:1-5; 2 Peter 3:13.

As foretold, Jesus has remained faithful from creation's beginning -- he has remained the same. Even while came to suffer as a man on earth, he remained the same -- not the same in substance, for while as human, he did not have the glory of the heavenly substance (John 17:5; 1 Corinthians 15:40), but he continued in faithful obedience to his God. (Philippians 2:8; Hebrews 5:8; 10:7-9) And Jesus will remain the same, and his years will not fail or ever end, since having been made alive from death, he now dies no more. -- Romans 6:9; Hebrews 7:16,25; Revelation 1:18.

There is nothing in any of this, however, that means that Jesus is Yahweh, his God. -- Hebrews 1:9.

What About Isaiah 48:13?

He laid the foundations of the earth, That it should not be moved forever. -- Psalm 104:5, World English Bible translation.

Yes, my hand has laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand has spread out the heavens: when I call to them, they stand up together. -- Isaiah 48:13, World English Bible translation.

He built his sanctuary like the heights, Like the earth which he has established forever. -- Psalm 78:69, World English Bible translation.

Through comparisons the scriptures, we should realize that the above scriptures are not speaking of the same things as "heavens" and "earth" that is being spoken of in Hebrews 1:10,11. In context of the latter, the heavens and earth are said to pass away. Thus, this is not speaking of the heavens where God's throne is, or where God and angels dwell, nor is it speaking of the physical heavens or the physical earth, which will never be removed. -- Psalm 72:17; 78:69; 89:36; 104:5; Matthew 18:10.

In Isaiah 48:13, Yahweh speaks of his laying the foundation of the physical earth and spreading out the physical heavens. These obey his commands, so that when he calls, they stand up together (in harmony). We see from Genesis 1:14-19 that the physical earth and the stars, etc., are shown as obeying the commands of Yahweh. --Genesis 1:14-19.

The physical earth spoken of in Isaiah 48:13 has been established forever, and will never be removed forever . -- Psalm 78:69; 104:5 -- Strong's #05703 and #05769 are both used in Psalm 104:5, thus signifying that the foundation of the physical earth will never be removed.

Therefore, it will be true that the day will come when the righteous will never be removed from the physical earth when it has been made new, but the wicked will not dwell in the earth anymore. -- Psalm 37:9-11,22,28,39; Proverbs 10:30; Matthew 5:5; Revelation 20:1-5.

Thus, Isaiah 43:13 is speaking of the physical heavens and earth that will never be removed, while Hebrews 1:10 is speaking of a heavens and earth that will be be removed.

The Beginning

In Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1, we read of a "beginning". Many have assumed that this "beginning" refers to absolutely everything in the universe, yet if we compare spiritual revealment with spiritual revealment, in both cases we can see that the scriptures show otherwise. Likewise, the "panta" -- all -- that was created through the Logos, referred to in John 1:3,4, is speaking, not of everything in the universe, but the world that was made by means of the Logos, the same world that did not recognize him. -- John 1:10
See
Beginnings
http://reslight.net/beg.html

In Exodus 20:11, we read:

for in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore Yahweh blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.