One person claims that we are dishonest, evidently because we do not wish to join with him in assuming, adding to, and reading into any of the scriptures that Jesus is the Father, and we endeavor to distinguish between doctrine added to the scriptures from what the scriptures actually do say. He further says that we are presenting same “weak” arguments of the JWs. In reality, although at times we may agree with some of the “arguments” presented by the JWs, we are not presenting the arguments of the JWs, weak or otherwise. Of course, claiming another’s argument as “weak” and “dishonest” does not necessarily mean that the arguments are actually “weak” or “dishonest”, since this tactic, that is, claiming the opposing argument is “weak”, “dishonest,” is often used as a decoy tactic, the usage of words to create an negative train of thought in the readers’ minds so as to discredit the opposing arguments in the minds of the readers.
On the other hand, the poster has presented not one scripture that says that Jesus, or any of the Bible writers, ever claimed that Jesus was his Father, or that he ever became his father, etc., but rather has presented a few scriptures that he wishes to add that idea to, and read that idea into, those scriptures. So it makes us wonder about who is really presenting the “weak” arguments.
Nor is it for us to present arguments that Jesus is not his Father, for the default assumption is that a son is not his father. Nevertheless, trying to address assumptions that are in the imaginations of men will always seem to be “weak” to those who believe those imaginative assumptions.
Ephesians 5:27 is presented, with the remark: “(Eph. 5:27) states that he might present it TO* HIMSELF A GLORIOUS EKKLESIA* without spot or wrinkle.Jesus is now that father and that One Spirit in you the hope of glory.”
Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, and Christ also is the head of the assembly, being himself the savior of the body. Ephesians 5:24 But as the assembly is subject to Christ, so let the wives also be to their own husbands in everything. Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the assembly, and gave himself up for it; Ephesians 5:26 that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing of water with the word, Ephesians 5:27 that he might present the assembly to himself gloriously, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Evidently, Ephesians 5:27 is thought to in some unstated way to mean that Paul was claiming Jesus to be the Father, although we see nothing in this that gives even a hint of such. We really do not see how one can even imagine such into the scripture, not unless one is taking “to himself” totally out of context and relating it to God’s reconciling all to himself through Christ. — 2 Corinthians 5:19.
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=56
However, Paul is not speaking of the reconciliation in Ephesians 5:27, but of the work that Jesus was doing in preparing his bride. Paul is depicting Jesus as a husband, to the ecclesia, or more correctly, as one who is the prospective the husband to those who are proven to be without spot or wrinkle, who become his bride. Jesus is indeed cleasning and working in the ecclesia in order to present these to himself as his bridegroom. (Revelation 21:2,9) Of course, this is using imagery or symbols of a bridegroom and bride, of a husband and wife, but there is nothing in this that says anything about Jesus’ being his God and his Father, if that is that is the thought that is in some unexplained way being added to and read into the verse.
See also:
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=175 (Regarding Matthew 28:18)
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=88 (Regarding John 3:34)
